Posts by Mrs. Fiorini

47

Is DISFELLOWSHIPPING being phased out?

by african GB Member in

jw
friends

i have an elder friend who is 'open-minded', so to say...he tells me what gets discussed at elder meetings, even though he does'nt give too much detail.. he says that they were instructed by the society not to hurry df'ing publishers, that they should try to reproof (1 timothy 3: 16,17) a sinner,,..that they should be a little considerate bearingf in mind that we are living in critical times of the end.. .

personally i know a few publishers(baptized or not) who now have children out of wedlock, and they were just "marked" or had privileges taken away..... the reason given is: "they realised that they have sinned, and they are fully repented, they gave enough evidence to jc that they want to be known as jw's".

now my question is : are they slowly doing away with the df'ing doctrine?.

Mrs. Fiorini

Slim,

Great points about the Stark article. I also felt he left out an important consideration, the fact that they are a cult. This abuse of their followers has ramifications, and makes it difficult to compare them with other religions who don't use mind manipulation. I believe it is something that should be factored into any analysis of the organization.

I also agree it's difficult to run a cult without a firm expectation that the "end" will come in the next few years. While the WT maintains this is still true, as you pointed out, there is the problem of their change in the "generation" doctrine. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if there isn't a little uptick in the rate of growth for the next few years, even in developed countries. They will exploit the economic crisis for all it's worth, and certain of their followers will buy into that, at least until it is resolved and things go back to normal.

I will check into The Trumpet of Prophecy. It sounds interesting.

I agree that they cut their own throat when they decided to avoid taxes and offer the literature on a contribution only basis. I can't help but think they would have done better seperating the religion out from the publishing company and operating it as a for profit entity, even if they had to pay taxes. On the other hand, publishing companies aren't doing that well these days anyway, so maybe they would be in the same boat no matter what.

I agree that they are always willing to spin their decisions in ways that mislead their critics as the Bulgaria situation bears out. We'll have to wait and watch what they do. I don't envy them. It's not easy to run a cult these days. They have created their own problems so many times on so many issues. My guess is they will continue to do so.

47

Is DISFELLOWSHIPPING being phased out?

by african GB Member in

jw
friends

i have an elder friend who is 'open-minded', so to say...he tells me what gets discussed at elder meetings, even though he does'nt give too much detail.. he says that they were instructed by the society not to hurry df'ing publishers, that they should try to reproof (1 timothy 3: 16,17) a sinner,,..that they should be a little considerate bearingf in mind that we are living in critical times of the end.. .

personally i know a few publishers(baptized or not) who now have children out of wedlock, and they were just "marked" or had privileges taken away..... the reason given is: "they realised that they have sinned, and they are fully repented, they gave enough evidence to jc that they want to be known as jw's".

now my question is : are they slowly doing away with the df'ing doctrine?.

Mrs. Fiorini

Slim brings up some good points about the possible consequences to the ex-JW community if they did. I can see an upside for the WT there.

However, I think there is a greater downside to the org if they phase out DFing. Slim, you did an exceptionally good thread a week or so ago about British sociologist David Voas's predictions for the WT. It inspired me to do further research and I read some of sociologist Rodney Stark's work (also referred to on your thread). It really expanded my understanding of the effects of DFing on the JW religion. He said one of the reasons such a high percentage of JWs are so committed to the WT is that they systematically reject any who aren't. He felt this is part of what kept them strong as an organization. It creates a great deal of pressure on the average JW to perform. Very few religions have the high degree of committed members that the WT has for this reason.

It made me rethink the whole DFing thing from the perspective of how it strengthens the org. Stark said that if they didn't kick out the less committed, it would probably have the effect of weakening the whole group, making it socially acceptable to avoid FS, not follow all the rules, etc. For this reason I think the WT will continue the practice. They want to keep the congregation "clean," just not in the way I had previously thought they meant.

16

1874-1914-2014

by diamondiiz in

jw
friends

so what do you guys think the next major lie will be?

or should i say wt light getting brighter teaching?

they had to change 1874 to 1914 since it didn't have anything to be backed by but 1914 they at least based it on 537bc minus this plus that blah blah blah we got 1914 (hide the pyramid measurments) :) if 1914 comes and goes they will have to do something major!

Mrs. Fiorini

The big unanswered question for me as we ponder these questions is, how much of their own dogma do those who run the WT actually believe? If they know their doctrine is failed and bankrupt, they are in a better position to evaluate where they want to take the organization and how they want to proceed. If they believe their own lies and think Armageddon is right around the corner, they are truly in a world of hurt, and will continue to make their situation worse.

Time will tell, I guess.

7

"Knowing" movie- predictions about the end of the world

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

this wasn't a perfect movie but it had some great special effects scenes involving a plane crash, a subway crash, and uh, deer.

i won't give anything away but i was really surprised at how far this movie took its story.

most of us have had dealings with end of the world predictions, so this movie is pretty pertinent to the forum..

Mrs. Fiorini

We just got home from seeing it. I have to say, it was weird. Mr. Fiorini hated it. I found it intriguing but strange. It starts out by discussing whether there is meaning and purpose in the universe, or if everything's the result of random chance. Somewhere along the line it takes an odd turn and ends up dealing with an Armageddon type scenario.

I must admit, as we left the theater I wondered if any JWs will go see it and what conclusions they might draw from it if they do.

28

I was counciled for putting in Pioneer hours and not officially "Pioneering"

by RubaDub in

i didn't want to hijack the thread about people having to "wait" until the society approves their pioneer status.. i recall once an elder was shocked that i had done the 60 hours a couple of months but not officially on the pioneer list for the months.

i told him that i didn't need the title, that the purpose was to do the work, not get a title.. i then heard a long lecture about how that was not encouraging to others, etc, etc, etc.. he got rather annoyed when i asked him what the purpose of the preaching work is.

of course he said to spread the good news.

Mrs. Fiorini

By not "officially" pioneering, they were not able to give you public praise and set you up as an example for others to follow. The amount of time you spent in service was not the main point. (For those of us who have pioneered in the past, we know how little difference that time makes in gaining converts anyway.) They want to be able to hold you up as an example to follow, subtly pressuring others to do it as well.

"The chain of command in cults is usually authoritarian, flowing from the leader through his lieutenants to their sub-leaders down to the rank and file. In such a well-regulated environment, all behaviors can be either rewarded or punished. It serves the leadership to keep their members off balance. If a person performs well, he will be given public praise from higher-ups and sometimes gifts or a promotion. If the person performs poorly, he may be publically singled out and criticized."

The above quote is from pages 60-61 of Steven Hassan's "Combatting Cult Mind Control."

10

I have the books....

by Rethinking in

...crisis of conscience and combatting cult mind control in my possession!!

bought them today!!.

i can't say enough how much this site has helped me thus far!

Mrs. Fiorini

Those two books, more than any others, helped me to understand what it was that I had been involved in most of my life. I can't imagine reading them and still having any interest in being part of the WT.

Good luck to you on your journey. If it's like mine, you'll need it.

4

Book of Daniel and Book of Revelation

by TweetieBird in

jw
friends

can anyone recommend a good book (or books) for help in understanding the book of daniel and the book of revelation?

i would like to read a non-jw version..

Mrs. Fiorini

I would recommend "Unveiling Empire: Reading Revelation Then and Now" by Wes Howard-Brook and Anthony Gwyther. The theme of this work is that the book of Revelation is about the Roman Empire during the first century. Even so, the book posits that Revelation has a message for our modern world.

This book does not take an "end times" approach that Armageddon is just around the corner.

64

How long does reinstatement take?!? Question for a elder or someone thats been in this situation

by N-kiki in

jw
friends

Mrs. Fiorini

Welcome to the board.

I will share an experience that happened to my former sister-in-law as a caution about being overly emotional. During her meeting to request reinstatement, she started crying. The elders denied her request to be reinstated. They told her it was because she was too emotional and therefore not ready to rejoin the congregation.

Personally I don't get that reasoning, especially since she had been disfellowshipped for being raped and was very hurt about that to begin with. (That was some time ago when they often disfellowshipped women for being raped. I don't know if they still do this or not.) I don't know if other elder bodies would see it the same way. But I would hate for it to be used against you like that.

Best wishes to you.

22

If You Could & Still Attended, What Suggestions Would You Give The Elders?

by minimus in

jw
friends

what would like to tell the elders that you knew?.

Mrs. Fiorini

I agree with jamiebowers.

I would also suggest that they not try to handle things that they are clearly not trained to do. When dealing with people who suffer from depression and other mental health issues, serious marital problems, etc., suggest they go to a marriage counselor, therapist, or other qualified professional, instead of reading a few scriptures and telling them to go out in service more. It's not fair to the brothers and sisters or to themselves to do otherwise.

By the way, clergy in other religions have been doing this for many years now, and have solved problems instead of making them worse by doing so.

33

Been fun...see ya around the campfire someday

by Gregor in

.

Mrs. Fiorini

Sorry to see you go, I'll miss your posts.

Best wishes to you though!